It’s all come down to this. After nine seasons and three
pairs of lead detectives, we are at the final season of Law &
Order: Criminal Intent.
Or are we?
The USA Network has offered the show one final wrap-up
season. In return, the show has brought back the original
characters, detectives Robert Goren (Vincent D’Onofrio) and Alexandra
Eames (Kathryn Erbe). The two actors had left the show at the
beginning of last season – and had not been in a
complete season’s worth of
episodes in a few years, with other actors like Chris Noth, Jeff
Goldblum, Julianne Nicholson and Saffron Burrows taking up the
slack.
However, for the final go-around, Law & Order creator
Dick Wolf decided to go back to the roots of the show, convincing
his stars to return for eight last episodes.
Still, Wolf allows, if the concluding season does well enough,
perhaps it won’t be the end of the road after all. If the show’s
ratings rebound, all bets are off.
We were recently lucky enough to be one of several websites
invited onto a conference call with star D’Onofrio and series
creator Wolf about the planned ending of Law & Order:
Criminal Intent.
Vincent, how did returning to the show even come about?
Vincent D'Onofrio:
I got a call from the other guy on the line here.
Well, okay, Dick, what made you guys decide to bring these two
characters back?
Dick Wolf:
Well, first of all, it was never a decision, basically, to have them
disappear into the wilderness. You never know as this show now
proves what’s going to happen in television, which is a constantly
changing landscape. I really have to credit (Bonnie) and (Jeff
Watell) for being able to make the phone call because they came or
(Jeff) specifically called me and said, what would you think of one
final season of Criminal Intent bringing back the way it was
originally, just Vincent and Katie. I said, fine, I hate to think of
anything being the last season but, yes, absolutely. Being the
unbridled optimist that I am I still have a hope that this is a
victory lap and not a swan song where I think that based on the work
that’s being done and has been done so far I think the
audience is
going to be very happy, relieved, and welcoming. I hope that as I
said, if this is a final season that it’s one that is enormously
satisfying for the fans and hopefully enough of them will come out
so that the powers that be reconsider the decision because I have to
tell you, I don’t think Vincent and Katie have been any better ever
in the series. It’s back to the real power of the first two seasons.
There is a very, very interesting add-on this season
beginning in the second episode, which is Vincent has part of
getting back on the major case squad and getting back in the good
graces of the police department. Part of that agreement was for him
to go into psychological counseling. There is one scene - an episode
of a session with his therapist who is Julia Ormond. Those scenes
answer some questions that have been hanging out there since the
first season. Over the course of the eight episodes you’re going to
see something of the redemptive power of psychotherapy as well as
there has been a conscious attempt to move Vincent over these eight
episodes back to the psychologically complete or more wholesomely
complete detective that he was in the first season of the show. I
think that as a subtextual theme throughout these episodes it’s
really interesting. This has been a great experience no matter what
happens but being the optimist that I am I think that there is a
real power in seeing a show come back at full octane, full fire
power, and with stories that are really interesting. The first one
is in the great tradition of the show and the brand at large. We
deal with what is in the popular psych guys and it’s a real
pleasure. That’s a very long-winded answer but it’s exciting to be
back.
Sounds it. Vincent, let me ask you, after all of these seasons, even
though you had a little bit of time off, what makes playing Goren
still a challenge for you?
Vincent D'Onofrio:
Well, it starts with the scripts because when the scripts are good – and
these that we’ve done in this batch are – you know, Dick always told
me he can’t knock it out of the park every time but in this eight
here, so far I mean, we’re knocking it out. Each one starts with the
story and then, if the story’s good, I have the opportunity on this
show – and I have for a very long time – to take it off the page and
mix it up a little bit and do stuff that people won’t expect. That’s
when I’m having the most fun. And so that’s what keeps it
interesting.
Did you ever expect the Law and Order franchise to last so long?
Dick Wolf:
That’s
to who?
Vincent D'Onofrio:
That’s to you.
Dick Wolf:
No, 22 years ago I was hopeful that we’d get 20 episodes if Law
and Order did not start out with a bang. It was very different
and an acquired taste and no, I certainly had no idea that we would
be here.
Vincent D'Onofrio: The fact that Criminal Intent has been on this long is an
amazing thing to me. Every time I leave my house to get some milk or
something from the store I’m reminded two or three times by the time
I get back about how much people love the show by the people on the
street here in New York. It just never gets old and it’s always
surprising how much people really like it...
Why do you think it lasted so long? What do you think makes the
series work so well?
Vincent D'Onofrio: Good story telling would be my answer.
Dick Wolf:
As Vincent just said, you can have great actors – if you give them
lousy words it’s not going to be a great show. It’s just Shakespeare
is still Shakespeare 450 years later. When it’s right and it’s
working it’s much better for the actors and it’s much better for the
show. It always starts with a blank page.
Vincent, what’s one thing your fans will be surprised to know about
you?
Vincent D'Onofrio:
About the character?
Or you, yourself.
Dick Wolf:
He’s 4’11”.
Vincent D'Onofrio:
I don’t know. I don’t know how to answer that question. There are lots
of surprises when you get to know someone for real, so it could be
lots of things that they would be surprised about. That’s as far as
me personally. As far as the character, Dick was talking earlier
about these new psych evaluations that are going on with Julia
Ormond where it’s just her character and mine in a room. She’s
getting to the bottom of Goren. I think you’re going to learn
things, like Dick said, that have been hanging out there for a long
time. I don’t want to give any of them away – but some of it will be
definitely entertaining and surprising.
Vincent, with what Dick was saying about Goren, when you came back
for this season did you have to tackle him with a different
headspace?
Vincent D'Onofrio: No, I was really ready after the time off to go back to the feeling,
the tone that we had in the first four seasons. I was really ready
to do it. On the first day, the first couple of scenes and
interrogations, it was like I put the suit back on and I was
rocking. It just felt right. The ideas keep coming, suddenly again.
No, it wasn’t tough. It wasn’t hard.
Dick, I noticed that Jay Mohr is guest staring in this one. Now we
know him usually as a comedic actor. What can we expect from him in
this?
Dick Wolf:
It’s a situation where you don’t want to give away the show on the
telephone but he is extraordinarily entertaining in this episode.
It’s not outright comedy but it is a larger-than-life character. And
he’s really good. It’s odd because he is known as a comic and this
is a highly dramatic role that a lot of dramatic actors would have
had a very hard time doing. He does a great job. It’s such a
pleasure - and we’ve been extraordinarily lucky over the years when
you get great guest stars. I think Vincent would agree. It’s like if
you’re playing tennis against a club champion, or number 27 on the
tour; your game should go up against the touring pro – the better
the competition, the better the game. Jay really A) came to play and
B) had a real take on the character.
Vincent D'Onofrio: Yes, he was very, very good in it. There’s also a new up-and-coming
actor named Neal Huff in the show as well that just does outstanding
work. It’s a very good show this first show they’re putting up. I
mean that’s my opinion, I think it is.
Dick, since I’m calling from Italy, can you talk about the first
episode which has an Italian word as a title so I’m a little bit
curious?
Dick Wolf:
Well, the use of Italian is fortunately or unfortunately not really
germane to the story. It turns out - and this doesn’t give away too
much – the name inspires a designer for a new line of very expensive
dresses. It’s a play off of the fact that essentially he hadn’t
gotten any respect for many years. So, it’s not an Italian-ade
story, let me put it that way, but the title fits perfectly.
Which one of the European versions of Law and Order you like most?
Dick Wolf:
Well, it’s hard to say because they’re all so different. That’s not
a copout. I can give you absolutely my two favorites were
Enquetes Criminelles which was CI in France with Vincent
Perez and Law and Order UK, which I think is really, really
good. But it is totally different animals. The Enquetes
Criminelles I thought was extraordinary but it was, again, the
proof that the greatest television actors are character actors. It’s
been that way since time immemorial, whether you go back and think
of – just rolling off the top of my head and I hadn’t thought about
this – from Angela Landsbury to Telly Savalas to Monk, [his]
name just went out of my head [Tony Shalhoub], to Vincent, to… the
list goes on and on. Vincent Perez is a great French character
actor. I think he had a ball playing the part. Law and Order UK
I love because it is the proof, again, of the storytelling that
they’ve been using the same way the French did. They’ve been using
our episodes and then adapting them to the local laws, local
customs, and local storytelling. The scripts change but they are
essentially versions… but not translations… of the originals. I was
very disappointed when TF1 didn’t bring Enquetes Criminelles
back. I’m thrilled that Law and Order UK has turned into a
major hit. The Russian shows are great fun for me to watch, but I
don’t speak Russian, so I can’t tell you how good they are. I can
tell you that the guy who plays Vincent looks like James Bond and
seems to be acting that way so that’s kind of fun – feeling like an
immigrant in your living room.
Vincent, after nine or ten years playing the same character, what is
an actor in your experience supposed to do to make it interesting
for himself first of all and then for the audience?
Vincent D'Onofrio: Yes, I take the scripts they write. That is where the ideas spawn from,
the scripts. Then hopefully, ideas come, things that I can do to
make it more interesting for myself to play the character and hence,
the audience enjoying that. You just have to hope that ideas come.
That’s how you keep it interesting.
Dick Wolf:
I will tell you – I think it’s fascinating as both a producer and a
fan of drama. One of the reasons, again, that I hoped this isn’t the
last season – and I hope that people react to this the way I reacted
to it – which is wow, these are the best shows in a long time. It’s
great fun for an audience to watch a great actor and a specific
character get older. I never heard anybody objecting to Peter Falk
after 18 years on Columbo. Angela Landsbury got better the
longer the show was on. It’s fun for the audience because it’s
somebody you really know. When a show’s been on for ten years people
change, everybody changes. You’re looking and you see some of the
early episodes in reruns and you go, wow, this is a life. It’s more
than just a collection of episodes. The longer a show like this runs
the better. Obviously, I’m very self-interested but, this is a naked
plea. I’d love to keep doing what we did this season. Eight episodes
a year would be fabulous for everybody but I don’t run the network.
Vincent, you just said you got a call from Dick and that’s when you
knew you were coming back. But was it an easy decision? Were you
like, absolutely? Or did you have to think about it when you got the
call from him?
Vincent D'Onofrio: I didn’t have to think about it. My wife thought about it for me. No,
it wasn’t – it’s not – difficult. I’ll just talk about Dick for a
second. Dick has supported me and my feelings about how to do the
show and how much I should do this show for a long time now – nine,
ten years. It’s business. When you trust somebody on the other end
and he gives you a call and says, this is what we’re thinking then
you consider it. You take it very seriously. I trust his intuition
with things. He’s been in this business for a very long time. He’s
one of the most successful guys doing this stuff. You have to say
yes to something like that.
And to that end, when you think about this being the final season,
even though Dick’s hoping it’s not, but if this is the final season,
do you think about how you want to say goodbye to Detective Goren or
what note you want to leave him on? Or, did you think about this
being the final season and what that would mean for how you’d want
to say goodbye to this character?
Vincent D'Onofrio: Honestly, honestly no. Yes, I get what you’re saying. Honestly no. It’s
very difficult from my perspective to imagine Criminal Intent
not existing. So to have those kinds of thoughts – they’re not
entering my head. It’s a difficult thing because of the fan base and
how good we’re doing right now for that kind of realization to
happen. I don’t think it will. I haven’t put one fragment of thought
into it actually to be totally honest.
That’s great. And just wanted to ask you about getting to work with
Kathryn again, what that’s been like?
Vincent D'Onofrio: She’s great. She’s great. We work very well together. I’m in my
dressing room but in the studio right now we’ve been working
together since this morning and we’re truly at ease with each other,
been doing it for a very long time. I knew her before we started
doing the show together. Her work is exceptional. I couldn’t imagine
anybody else playing that part. It just works. It just works, hands
down. It works. It never fails.
Dick, we see a lot of times crossovers in characters from different
Law and Order shows visiting other Law and Order shows. If
this is the last season for Criminal Intent, do you have
thoughts about working these characters into some of your other
shows?
Dick Wolf:
This may sound strange but it has never entered my head. We accepted
the gig on this – on the spaces and I don’t in anyway to sound
ungrateful. I think that what [USA Network execs] Bonnie [Hammer]
and Jeff [Wachtel] have done is certainly the best creative gesture
that has ever been extended to me by any network in 30 years in the
business. Talk about a class move. But that having been said, it’s
just not the way I’m constructed. I’m exactly the same place that
Vincent is. I can’t imagine that this actually going to be the end
of this show because it ain’t out of steam. I mean this is something
that’s operating better now in my humble opinion than any time in
the last four or five years, six. Everybody came to play.
Everybody’s playing at the top of their game. The first episode is
as good as episodic television gets. I mean Jay Mohr’s performance
is quite amazing. And Vincent and Katie, there is not a missed
stitch. It just feels like: oh, thank God they’re back. So, no,
there are no plans. Everything else is on their episode. Next season
we’ll see but it’s not part of my thinking. Again, I’m a cockeyed
optimist. I think that a lot of our old audience is going to sample
this when it comes back and if they do they’re not going to be
disappointed.
To me it seems like ten years flew by overnight. I still remember
when the show first premiered and I can’t believe ten years have
passed so fast. I’ve always been a fan of your work since even
before I knew your name, since I saw you in Stanley Kubrick’s
Full Metal Jacket. I have a couple of quick questions. One time I
interviewed Bruce Campbell and he said to me, he’s a character actor
stuck in a leading man’s body. You’ve done a lot of character work,
especially in genre films like The Thirteenth Floor and
Men in Black. The crime genre is in itself a huge genre. Do you
see yourself as a leading actor on both film and television or as a
quasi-character actor? Are you still attracted to genre films
outside of Law and Order? I understand you have some features
and some other projects that you’re working on.
Vincent D'Onofrio:
Sure. I’m a character stuck in a character actor’s body. And, yes, I
love film. I love all the genres. As long as the script is good and
there’s something challenging in it for me to do I love it. You
know, it’s just what I do. As far as projects I have coming up I
think the announcement goes out today about the next film that I’m
producing called Mall. It’s an adaptation from an Eric
Bogosian novel. The announcement today will [say] that Chelsea
Handler is doing it, Eric, myself, and a guy named Joe Hahn is
directing it. I’m producing it with Erika Hampson and Sam Maydew of
the Collective. I have a film that I directed as well that I wrote,
a slasher/musical which was bought by Tribeca Films, which is going
to be released around this coming Christmas. That’s what I’ve been
doing. I’ve been writing and producing and directing and acting. I
have a film out now called Kill the Irishman that I’m in with
Ray Stevenson and Val Kilmer and Christopher Walken. That’s what
I’ve been up to.
Mr. Wolf, what attracts you to the crime drama genre? Is there a
difference between working on
Law and Order on network television and a difference between what
you can get away with on the storytelling on basic cable network
like USA?
Dick Wolf:
To go backwards, there is really no difference between basic cable
and network in terms of language or content anymore. Premium cable,
HBO, sure, you can use four-letter words and have frontal nudity but
that’s really about it. There aren’t the same content restrictions
because, A) there’s too much to monitor and, B) there is a natural
system in place with advertisers. So it’s not really an issue except
with people who want to write about it. It’s just not an issue at a
creative level anymore. The reason that I love cop shows is very
simple. I’m essentially at core a writer and the form of writing
that I’ve been doing for 35 years is dramatic screenwriting of one
sort or another. The bottom line is that drama works best when the
stakes are highest and cop shows, the stakes are oftentimes
literally life and death. So you’re starting out with the bar at a
level that if you get over it there are going to be people who want
to see it.
Forgive me if this is a little bit off topic but Mr.
D’Onofrio, what was it like to work with a director like Stanley
Kubrick? And Mr. Wolf, I saw that you went to high school with
George W. Bush. Tell me now that he’s no longer the President of the
United States, did you ever expect him to become the President? Or
did you ever see his mannerisms and say, yes, I remember how he used
to be in high school and he used to do the same thing or something
like that?
Dick Wolf:
No. I don’t think anybody knows in high school who is going to
succeed. The biggest danger in high school is peaking too soon, but
that’s probably based on my academic experience.
Vincent D'Onofrio:
Kubrick was amazing. I’m talking to you on the phone right now because
of Stanley Kubrick. It’s something that in my heart and in my mind,
it’s a feeling that will never change. It’s something that is
imprinted in my emotional life. He was a great guy to work for. I
worked with him for 13 months and it was like going to film school.
The things that I learned in that 13 months have stuck with me to
this day.
Dick, I think you’re the guy for me to ask this question to, how do
you approach this season to a TV show?
Dick Wolf:
Look, when it’s an existing show the only thing that’s comparable to
television is being a farmer. You throw the seeds in the ground in
the spring, they come up over the summer, and you sell them in the
fall and winter and then plant more seeds. It’s just a constant -
literally a constant rotation. When a show’s working you don’t worry
about what the next season’s going to be. You’re just worried about
getting great story ideas because depending on the size of the order
it’s a lot of stories to tell. I would go so far as to say that part
of the problem with dramas on network television now is that in
reality 22 episodes is probably too many to do and do well. I’ve
been doing it for a long time. I used to tell show runners that if
you have 22 episodes and you get through a season and you’ve got
four that you think are Emmy quality and four that you never want to
see again, and 14 that are sort of inside the hash marks, [that’s a]
pretty good season.
I don’t want to break my arm patting myself on the back but
for a lot of years on the shows in the brand I think we’ve exceeded
that proportion. There have been an enormous number of very, very
good episodes on all three shows. I just don’t know if the best way
to get that percentage up to a really high level is to do 22, 18,
16. There are economic reasons that 22 is almost mandatory in the
first three or four years so that there is enough to sell to cable
to get the deficit back. There are always business reasons for this
but creatively – I can’t over estimate the debt I feel to Bonnie and
Jeff but – doing these eight episodes is truly a luxury in terms of
a way to do a show. Basically because as opposed to a normal season
everybody is not staggering from exhaustion and you’re not even
halfway through the season. Anyway, that’s the answer. Unless a show
is in trouble there is no real need to examine what the course of
the season is going to be, just come up with great stories. If it’s
not working then there are many discussions that take place.
Robert Goren is one of my favorite all-time characters in
television. He’s interesting. He’s just such a believable character.
In your mind, if he makes it to 75 or 80, what would you imagine he
would be doing?
Vincent D'Onofrio:
I think it’d be Law and Order: Ironside.
Dick Wolf:
I don’t know. I think it might be a little bit of Gran Torino.
Vincent D'Onofrio: Maybe, yes. Exactly, could be, yes. I don’t know. Is that a serious
question?
Yes, it is. Just in your mind, where is he going to be?
Vincent D'Onofrio: Well, I’ll answer it in this way. What Dick said earlier about a
character aging in front of audiences slash the actor aging in front
of audiences. What I think happens is as the actor gets older and
has new experiences in life what the actor puts across in his
performances are influenced by his or her own life. So there are
these changes that take place right in front of the audience, as the
story’s being told. That’s a really cool thing. So I guess the
answer to your question is more. You end up getting more and
different stuff, different things, that’s the only answer I can give
you.
Now Vincent, you’re such an incredible and diverse actor and you
transition perfectly from playing a serial killer and even a bug
into the best detective on TV. What is it like to play him? And
Goren is such an intriguing character, how would you compare
present-day Goren to the Goren that we were introduced in Season 1?
Vincent D'Onofrio: Well, you know, it’s great to play Goren. It’s a really good character.
We always talked about him, Dick and I and the original show runner,
René Balcer as a Sherlock Holmes – a contemporary Sherlock Holmes.
That’s a great character to play, just that alone. Compare these
that we’re doing now, I can’t compare them very much to the first
few seasons or even four seasons of Criminal Intent. They’re
fast-paced, good storytelling, high-stake stuff going on with Goren
being his usual self that he was back in the day when we started
doing this show. He’s thinking on the fly. He’s a bit quirkier than
you would expect a major case squad detective to be but he’s coming
up with the answers, so it’s highly dramatic in that way again. I
would say what we’re doing is very similar. The only thing that’s
different – and one of the things that’s different in these eight is
that you’re getting him in – he’s getting some shrinkage. You’re
getting to see time with him with the shrink and that’s very
interesting. We’ve shot two of the shrink scenes already with Julia
Ormond, who’s just amazing in them. I mean I was just floored by
what she was doing. She showed up and did this stuff. You’re getting
an insight into Goren that you would have never gotten unless we did
this, so it’s very, very interesting stuff.
Thanks, now can you fill us in on a couple of your favorite scenes
on the upcoming episodes and on what we have to look forward to from
Goren?
Vincent D'Onofrio: In “Respeto” there is – I think the aria is really, really good because
it’s really, really well acted by the guest star. There are a couple
of interrogation scenes that are very good that reach back to how
good the best ones have been in the Criminal Intent’s
history. Yes, I do have favorites in the ones one coming up.
Dick, do you have a favorite?
Dick Wolf:
I think the aria, and to those of you that don’t [know] - the aria
is what we call the sort of make or break interrogation scene in the
fourth act. The most memorable episodes, going back to the first
season with Vincent putting his shoe up on the interrogation...
Vincent D'Onofrio: With Griffin Dunne.
Dick Wolf:
Yes, and saying, “I wear a size 13, what are you, about a nine?”
Vincent D'Onofrio: Nine.
Dick Wolf:
Maybe an eight. That is the key to the memorability of episodes. The
aria in “Respeto” is as good as we’ve gotten because it’s very hard
to get twists in the aria. And there’s really a big one in this one.
Listen, you’re talking like this is not really a done deal that this
is the last season.
Dick Wolf:
No, it is.
That inspires us with great, great hope. And so I’m asking you what
do we tell our fans and our viewers and your fans and your viewers
about the prospects for another season? And is there anything that
they can do?
Vincent D'Onofrio: You can tell them that we have the same hope that they have.
Dick Wolf:
It’s even simpler. You don’t tune in it won’t be back. It’s very
simple. If you want to see it, watch it.
We call that the Firefly mantra.
Dick Wolf:
It’s very simple. This is going to be no taking no laundry here.
People have got to show up or it will be a self-fulfilling
prophecy.
Look, again, I am incredibly grateful to Bonnie and Jeff for doing
this. I don’t in any way want to be construed as biting the hand
that feeds us. It is the last season, unless they see a reason not
for it to be the last season. The way they will see that is if they
get people tuning in and the kind of numbers tuning in three and
four years ago, five years. Then it’s a very simple choice for them.
But in their mind, they’ve announced it as the last season. It’s the
last season unless lightning strikes – but as I said, I’m a cockeyed
optimist and I believe in how good the show is. Anybody who likes or
has liked Vincent in the past, you tune into this first episode,
you’re going to keep coming back. It’s very easy to sell when you’ve
got the goods. In reality this is like selling ice to Eskimos even
though it’s freezing up in Canada now. It’s a really good product.
If I was an Eskimo I’d buy it.
So really is it just a numbers game then right now? Everybody signed
on to do it again if they give you the go ahead?
Dick Wolf:
No, no, they’re not. Nobody has - there is no deal. There is
nothing. This was a one shot as far as USA is concerned. They have
announced this is the last season of the show. It’s the last season
of the show. I can tell you that having done this for this long it’s
very hard to come up with shows that have these lengths and this
kind of staying power. I know that if it comes in and outperforms
what they think the last season was going to do they’re going to
want more of them. It’s that simple. But people have got to show up,
you know. TiVo does not count, please watch.
So basically what are the kind of expectations that the network has?
Do you have any idea as to the numbers?
Dick Wolf:
I have no idea. You have to understand that every show in the history of
television has been born under that sentence. They usually don’t
give you the date of execution. We have a date of execution but it
could be stayed.
Vincent D'Onofrio: But USA, like any other network, wants a good job.
Dick Wolf:
Yes.
Vincent D'Onofrio: And so we’re trying to give them one.
Mr. D’Onofrio, I just wanted to ask if you watched the show at all
when you weren’t on it? And if not why not? And if so what’d you
think?
Vincent D'Onofrio: I watched Jeff a couple of times, yes. I told Dick this, I thought that
Jeff was a great replacement for me. I’ve been a fan of Jeff’s from
when he started working as an actor. I just think he’s a really fine
actor – so it was great. Yes, I liked it.
Was it weird to see somebody walking around with your clothes on,
that sort of thing?
Vincent D'Onofrio: Well, he wasn’t playing Goren, you know.
No, but in
your space. At least that’s how the audience thought of it even if
you didn’t.
Vincent D'Onofrio: No, it wasn’t weird. It wasn’t weird.
CLICK HERE TO SEE WHAT VINCENT D'ONOFRIO
HAD TO SAY TO US IN 2009!
